Shingeki no Kyojin: The Final Season Episode 5 Discussion

Zprotu said:

hyping up killing innocent civilians? nahhhhh

DonTheRevo said:
Eren somehow managed to become an even less likeable character! His actions towards the end are not justified, killing off so many innocent people by attacking the city directly! He basically did the same thing Reiner did when his mother was killed! Eren was right, Reiner and him are the same, they are both terrible people! At this point, i dont care what happens to Eren and his group, cheering for them is no different than cheering for Reiner, both terrible people, both selfish and both wrong! Portraying one as the bad guy throughout the entire anime and then allowing your MC to do the same thing is ridiculous! This is what we call a character regression!

Eren_Hitler said:


Twice longer than yours, bud.

DonTheRevo said:
Eren somehow managed to become an even less likeable character! His actions towards the end are not justified, killing off so many innocent people by attacking the city directly! He basically did the same thing Reiner did when his mother was killed! Eren was right, Reiner and him are the same, they are both terrible people! At this point, i dont care what happens to Eren and his group, cheering for them is no different than cheering for Reiner, both terrible people, both selfish and both wrong! Portraying one as the bad guy throughout the entire anime and then allowing your MC to do the same thing is ridiculous! This is what we call a character regression!

DonTheRevo said:
Eren somehow managed to become an even less likeable character! His actions towards the end are not justified, killing off so many innocent people by attacking the city directly! He basically did the same thing Reiner did when his mother was killed! Eren was right, Reiner and him are the same, they are both terrible people! At this point, i dont care what happens to Eren and his group, cheering for them is no different than cheering for Reiner, both terrible people, both selfish and both wrong! Portraying one as the bad guy throughout the entire anime and then allowing your MC to do the same thing is ridiculous! This is what we call a character regression!

PinkOni said:
This episode was filled to the brim with edge of the seat suspense. You just knew something good was going to come. My only gripe was that I wanted to see Eren kill everyone in the square. I hope that's next episode. Keep it up SNK.

Zprotu said:


Damn we really out here with team Eren 😭😭😭

PinkOni said:


Im telling you I support Eren 1000 percent now.

DonTheRevo said:
Eren somehow managed to become an even less likeable character! His actions towards the end are not justified, killing off so many innocent people by attacking the city directly! He basically did the same thing Reiner did when his mother was killed! Eren was right, Reiner and him are the same, they are both terrible people! At this point, i dont care what happens to Eren and his group, cheering for them is no different than cheering for Reiner, both terrible people, both selfish and both wrong! Portraying one as the bad guy throughout the entire anime and then allowing your MC to do the same thing is ridiculous! This is what we call a character regression!

PinkOni said:


Im telling you I support Eren 1000 percent now.

DonTheRevo said:
Eren somehow managed to become an even less likeable character! His actions towards the end are not justified, killing off so many innocent people by attacking the city directly! He basically did the same thing Reiner did when his mother was killed! Eren was right, Reiner and him are the same, they are both terrible people! At this point, i dont care what happens to Eren and his group, cheering for them is no different than cheering for Reiner, both terrible people, both selfish and both wrong! Portraying one as the bad guy throughout the entire anime and then allowing your MC to do the same thing is ridiculous!

Attackonfiller said:

It's almost as if that's the point.

dicecop said:
I know I should have kept my expectations low but man, they really didn't do the ending justice at all. Not to mention that they are aparently going for a monotone, dead inside Eren. They didn't even attempt to convey his emotions other than the single smile towards the end. Meh. Mappa not so goat this week

Sharpedon said:
While it was a slow-burn episode it constantly felt like all hell might break loose at any second. There was an underlying tension, a feeling that the entire Liberio Internment Zone could erupt at any moment, but it was unclear how. In the previous episode I thought that Eren and his comrades' plan was merely to abduct Reiner (covertly) and have someone among them eat him in order to steal his power. But that wasn't very ambitious, was it?

I forgot that the Paradis Eldians had 4 full years to devise their counter-attack. They actually had more spare time to prepare than Marley, because during most of that time Marley was fighting against third party countries, but Paradis never fought with anyone. It is unclear, at the moment, for how long the Paradis Eldians have infiltrated Marley but it must be a year at the very least, maybe even two. With Marley being completely in the dark all that time.. So it appears that their end-game was to attack during that "war declaring festival" where delegates from all over the world had gathered, along with the entire brass of Marley. A "kill or catch all birds with one stone" plan apparently.

However, won't that attack prove Willy Tybur's point to the entire world that the Paradis Eldians (and Eren in particular) are indeed a dangerous threat? It is one thing for the Paradis Eldians to fight just Marley and quite another to declare war against the entire world. It appears that the Tyburs and Marley strongly doubted that they could prevail against Paradis alone, so the main point of the festival was to "motivate" the rest of the world (via fear) to join Marley in fighting Paradis (with Marley, of course, gaining the Founding Titan along with the other 8 titans).

Tybur was willing to both admit that he was a traitor to his race and implicitly admit that Marley was too weak to gain victory against Paradis by themselves. And his almost unnaturally captivating charisma did succeed in selling his points, oddly moving delegates who were until recently enemies to tears..

Is that why Eren transformed to attack? He knew that Tybur was going to declare war on Paradis but he and his comrades couldn't possibly predict the reaction of the foreign delegates and press. It was like he was waiting for their reaction to see if he would transform and attack or not. Since they reacted hyper-positively to Tybur's "play" and they were going to attack their island anyway the Paradis Eldians might as well make the first move; it's not exactly a preemptive strike when most of the rest of the world just declared war against you.

And it might not be exactly the entire world either. I bet good money that that Asian Lady (from a "quite powerful country in the East" I currently cannot recall its name) is in bed with Eren and his people. We already saw her treating an Eldian kindly in the previous episode, then she met Willy Tybur to "see again his face" (for the last time?), then she promptly left the Liberio Zone (despite having come from far abroad ostensibly for that very same festival..) as if she knew Eren was going to attack. So the Paradis Eldians almost certainly have at least one foreign ally; maybe they have more?

(wow, this must be my longest comment here..)


I think you misunderstood the reason Eren transformed to attack. Why do you think he waited to listen to the entirety of Willy Tybur's speech/play and then attack right when it finished? He even said to Reiner and Falco to "sit there and listen". He didn't wait to see whether Willy would declare war on them. He and his comrades already knew that, via their (perhaps extensive) infiltration and spying. What he waited for was the reaction of the foreign delegates and press.

It was during their reaction, when they cheered at Willy Tybur like crazed idol fans, that Eren closed his eyes and had what I think was a "just like we were expecting" expression. I bet that if they had reacted coldly to Willy's speech Eren would not have attacked, since in that case their only enemy would have been Marley. In that case they would have enacted Plan B just for Marley; why would they needlessly declare war on the entire world?

However Eren and co didn't declare war on the entire world. The entire world (minus -I think- at least the country of the Asian Lady) just declared world on them. Willy Tybur called everyone to arms against Paradis and its "devils" and they all happily complied, with immense enthusiasm too. You cannot break "the chain of hate" when just about the entire world just declared war on you. Neither is Eren's attack considered a preemptive strike; Eren attacked right after the declaration of war against them but the timing does not matter, only that he attacked after the war declaration.

Mod Edit: Merged duplicated posts; please use the edit button.

FragOutFire said:
I've been looking at some youtube comments and forum posts about this last episode and I have a question for MAL:

Do you believe Willy Tybur told the truth about how the Titan civil war ended, the intentions of King Fritz and Helos?

In this anime where they've already shown that you can't really be sure how even the ancient Eldians ruled, I found a surprising amount of people that just took Willy Tybur at his word. Especially considering the motive for his propaganda: war and the retrieval of the founding titan so that Marley could maintain its military dominance for a few years more until they modernize their weaponry.

Yazanru10 said:
Please can someone tell me will eren titan be in cgi ???

Yazan_Aot said:

yes
eren titan will be CGI for all the season
they already did the model
any CGI titan will stay CGI for the rest of the season, since they did the model

Catalano said:
I must be missing something from the overall story or Eren has just gone crazy. He's there talking to Reiner accusing him of killing his mother and telling him that he's the big evil guy as they hear Willy's speech, then Eren says he's the same as Reiner for he slept with the enemy and all that and he doesn't want to kill all his enemies. I was expecting some bigger talk but for now I kinda don't know what he's thinking, he says to Falco to stay there but he shifts into a titan near them, that could've killed him. He's gone insane.
Willy's speech wasn't that much incredible, I kinda knew that Fritz was the good guy but still, there is no proof that eldians killed the other humans, it's just propaganda. Willy and Marley knew about Eren from the traitors so they declared war because Paradis could became too powerful, at the end of the day, this won't do any good, it's just propaganda for they want the Founding Titan power to start the Rumbling (transform all eldians into titans) and destroy all Marley's neighbor countries.
I feel that the orientals are friends with Paradis and want to destroy Marley from within seeing how that VIP woman talked with the soldier. Eldian soldiers are everywhere and they are prepared to kill the head of states there.
I could be wrong about all this so let's see the next episode.

TitanGotRekt said:


Eren understands that the world outside paradise isn't simply pure evil or pure bad,it's just like paradise,that's why he said,"I am the same as you".Cause despite acknowledging the fact that people on the other side are same as them,he still gotta do what he thinks is needed for the survival of his people.Do note that, eren waited till the last moment Willy declares war.I am not justifying his actions of killing innocents in that building but for better or worse he has chosen that path.

Same goes for Willy,the anime re arranged some important convo between him and magath which will most likely be in the next ep,that would make it more clear why he decided to unite the world against paradise.But in short,he just wanted the hate shifted from eldians outside paradise to people on paradise. Basically,he kinda pulled a lelouch lol and from his pov,he succeeded as by making the king heroic and eren the devil; the ambassadors and everyone presented started questioning their hate and motive for going against eldians while simultaneously being wary of the "new paradise" until eren literally bursted out the building and gave them the grim reminder.
Hope this clears things up.

Catalano said:

thanks for clearing that out, but to continue, the Tybur family was very influential in Marley, why didn't they use their power to save the eldians from the interment zones? they could've used propaganda against Paradis, they just sold the eldians to Marley to create their empire with the help of mindless titans, why didn't they use only the eldian criminals as titan power?
The Tyburs did that to atone for their sins (from Willy's speech) but still, there is no proof that the eldian empire killed humans (please don't spoil if you're a manga reader and know more than that), they built roads, bridges and buildings, I feel that the Tyburs started the great titan war to defeat king fritz, get the founding titan power, start the rumbling and destroy it all, just like snk is destroying my sanity :))

TitanGotRekt said:


The thing is the show till this point hasn't made it clear whether eldian empire was the good old empire that helped the world thrive or whether it was an empire who only conquered and subjugate other races. It's as Kruger from s3pt2 says,"Anyone can be a God or devil,you just need enough people to believe that".Remember,even Grisha didn't know what was in the scripts he found during his revolutionary days as he himself admitted that he didn't understand the language but "believed in their founder Ymir". The truth is more or less in between.

Another semi important line cut from s3p2 of Kruger was that if eldians only did genocide just like outside world believes they did for 2000 years,then there would only be a single culture left in the world.It's kinda like our world, an empire which has supposedly ruled a vast majority portion of the world,so naturally there would be good rulers and bad rulers in 2000 years of time frame.The overall truth is in the grey and Isayama himself said in a interview that the series doesn't pass any judgement of what or who is right or wrong rather the series tries to understand what drives a conflict,in this case,the cycle of hatred. So,you could say Willy was kinda twisting the "truth" in his favour to unite the world against the "devils of paradise island".

Also,about the Tyburs, they made their fortune on the demise of their own kins.So, until now,naturally none of the family heads didn't give a shit about it at al whether it was for "attonment" or luxury as their family was safe and sound.It was Willy who took the initiative,that's why he said,the burden was too heavy for him and another reason why he did what he thought was best in ep5. In his eyes,the only way for the world to move on from "forgiving" the eldians if a more dire threat could be shown which is Paradise island led by eren yeager. Basically,it's a mess lol of the same cycle of hatred repeating again and again.

Catalano said:

thanks again, really cleared out some things, I also remember Grischa reading the eldian books and saying all those good stuff about the empire but when he was asked how he knew how to read, he simply said "I don't understand the language, but it has to be true, ymir was good" (not the exact quote but you know the story). I will be looking for your posts next episode threads.

TitanGotRekt said:


Glad to be of help.
Also I would suggest checking out the manga after the series ends. It’s not that the adaptations are bad by any means,it’s just due to time constraints some lore,details and character interactions are bound to be left out.So,if you love the series and want to have a deeper understanding of it,do read the manga after the anime ends. Besides, AoT is always more rewarding on a re read or re watch.

MWAsura said:
Bruh literally all everyone here is complaining about is the OST usage. Jesus

Kokorune said:
eren is cool and sexy and swag I love him and I would give him a gawk gawk gawk 50000 twist dip twirl swirl combo then get on all fours and bark for him bark bark bark woof woof grr wooof gawkk